Do I believe him?
- Yep, I believe in the fetters model, and imagine you can totally break them via a direct method, vs meditation
- A friend talked about old-school buddhism being like being in a pitch-black cave and meditating for 1000s of hours until you eventually stumble across the light switch, vs more modern/cutting edge methods being like, having someone say “hey, it’s over here! The light switch is over here!”
- The fetters model
Why not do it?
- Cost → I currently have low income and am trying to spend as little as possible
- Not grokking the profundity
- I think if I could “peek into” the experience post-breaking the fetters, it’d be like “oh duh, this is such a good investment, an absurdly good investment, essentially infinite ROI, every day massively improved”
- Sasha Chapin tweeted something recently about how you hear people saying meditation has huge unlocks and you don’t believe it until it happens and then you’re like “holy fucking shit it’s better than I could have ever imagined” (and this is how I feel about my ~stream entry/Kensho experience (substack))
- I think because the fetters are so pervasive, it’s not this clear thing. It’s not like “get taught how to do jhanas”, it’s like “unlock a totally new mode of being”
- I think if I could “peek into” the experience post-breaking the fetters, it’d be like “oh duh, this is such a good investment, an absurdly good investment, essentially infinite ROI, every day massively improved”
So, let’s grok the profundity more
- Does he have writeups? What are the fetters anyway? What do you break in what order?
- Weakening fetters 4 and 5
Was ~stream entry profound?
- Yes, probably the most profound thing that has ever happened to me
Is there still work to be done?
- Yes, I am wildly judgemental, negative rumination about my family, anger, bitterness
Could progress in the 4 path model help?
- Yes, the 5th fetter is “ill will”
So, could 2nd path, 3rd path be as profound as 1st path?
- If they’re even a quarter as profound, will be amazing
- If 1st path erased my social anxiety because of “oh shit, there’s no real self here, nothing to worry about”
- Then 2nd/3rd path could lead to “oh shit, there’s no need for ill will, because xyz” → would be deeply profound
- Ill Will is my problem right now. “How do I orient to my family” is AKA “how do I stop being so angry at my family” which is AKA “how do I stop having so much ILL WILL towards my family”
2025-08-26
Just messaged Michael:
I think I’m getting closer to being ready!
I’ve been following the “Simply the Seen” guide for fetters 4 & 5 and think I’ve weakened them somewhat
I’m realising I should really be more ambitious here - I had my stream-entry/kensho experience and it was sooooo good, and then I integrated and it weakened but changed some things forever (e.g. no more social anxiety).
And I think I was like “well, that ~4 hour stretch when the stream entry experience was most potent was incredible, non-dual and flow-y and incredibly rich, but I’ll probably never return to it, and that’s ok”, vs I imagine actually via fetters work I could exist from that place, which would be… insane